Country_Woman,
Well, since you were tucked away in that little village all by yourself, maybe it was a good thing. That way you didn't have Elders looking over your shoulder.
Rod P
Posts by Rod P
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37When you left the JW's, did you keep all your books & magazines?
by Rod P ini had a collection of older publications almost second to none.
along with the 30-year publications index, i felt invincible in the research department.. then i got disfellowshipped and divorced, and my ex kept them all.
" i couldn't tell her "for research" because that would have sounded like i was going to write a book exposing jw's, which would have made things even worse.
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66
Does the Bible interpret itself, or a fiddle you can play any tune with?
by Rod P intesting this thread.
well, after three times, it finally worked.
why are there so many religions all professing belief in the bible, yet all of them interpret the bible differently?
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Rod P
adelmaal,
So then, you agree that the path to God is an individual matter.
Amen to that!
The next question would be, by implication, "Is the Bible the only book in the world that can correctly teach us about God and have a valid relationship with the Divine?" This is not a ludicrous question, because millions of people around the world and thru history are just as convinced that this is so, the Bible notwithstanding. And since believing what you want about the Bible and within the Bible is apparently OK, then why does it not hold true that other writings and scriptures about God are just as valid for individual acceptance and interpretation?
How about the Koran? The Vedas? The Buddhist writings? The Torah? The Gnostic manuscripts? The Book of Mormon? and others? If believing what you want from the Bible is valid, then why is believing what you want from books outside the Bible not of equal value? And just who gets to decide which is valid, and which is not, since you say interpretation is an individual matter? I am very serious here.
Rod P.
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24
Did the Devil and his Demons do it?
by Rod P intrue story: i used to drive for long trips on the highway a lot.
three-hundred-and-fifty mile trips were not unusual, and night time driving was quite common.
one night i fell asleep at the wheel, travelling 55 miles per hour along winding mountainous roads.
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Rod P
AGuest,
I mean no disrespect, and I certainly do not want to trample your "pearls" into the mud.
And the last thing on my mind is to blaspheme God or to glorify Satan.
What I am getting at is that IMO, JW's in general, all too often attribute certain experiences to be of the Devil, and they also attribute certain events in their lives as being evidence for Divine Intervention, when neither one is necessarily the case. There could be some very natural explanations for what happened.
Too many times people put God, or conversely, the Devil, where He/he is not, when this has little to do with it. This, we should guard against. All too many times events have occurred in history that were based on, or attributed to, something that was neither supernatural nor miraculous, or evil and Satanic, when the Truth was, they were not (eg. the Salem Witch Trials). There is a grave lesson to be learned here.
I think there are a lot of religions out there who prey (not "pray") on the masses, the superstitious, and the gullible, by playing the "God" or "Satan" card to control them. That is so wrong!
That is the implicit point of my question on this thread, without taking anything away from God.
Rod P.
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66
Does the Bible interpret itself, or a fiddle you can play any tune with?
by Rod P intesting this thread.
well, after three times, it finally worked.
why are there so many religions all professing belief in the bible, yet all of them interpret the bible differently?
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Rod P
adelmaal,
You realize, of course, there are a lot of Religious Organizations out there who claim that they, and they alone, are the one right religion, and the only pathway to God. You can't do it on your own, because you have to do it thru their Organization. And if God is on their side only, then God will reveal the correct interpretation of the Bible solely by and thru that one right Religion. That's their argument, not mine. I am trying to make the point of just how spurious this whole notion really is!
The question is one of Authority. You do not have the individual authority from God to interpret the Bible. Otherwise, there will be nothing but confusion rampant in the earth. God supposedly works thru His Church to reveal His Truth, His Word, His Will.
The JW's claim that they alone demonstrate the signs that they have Jehovah's blessings, the "Faithful and Discreet Slave Class", the Governing Body. "By their fruits you shall know my disciples." is their banner held high, proving that God is using them to teach the Truth from the Bible. Thru Jehovah's spirit, all is and will be revealed to and thru the G.B. Everything else is the worldwide empire of false religion.
The Mormons claim they and they alone have the Authority to act and speak for God in these latter days. It is thru the principal of Divine Revelation that God reveals his Truth to a Prophet, Seer and Revelator here on earth, who has the Power and Authority of the Priesthood to act in the name of God. Without that Authority, we have no right to speak for God, and our interpretations of Scripture would, at best, be just another competing theory amongst many.
The Catholic Church teaches that the Authority was given by Christ to the Apostles, and Peter as the head of the Church. "Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church." Thru Apostloic Succession, this authority was passed on down thru the ages, and the head of the Church, referred to as the "Pope", when he stands in the Office of the Holy See, is supposed to be under the Infallible Direction of the Holy Spirit (hence Papal Infallibility). And they teach that without the Authority of the Catholic Church, you cannot understand the Scriptures nor interpret it correctly.
There are many others who claim they are the ones authorized to speak for God and His Book the Bible. Many cults have grown up around this notion. (eg. Mary Baker Eddy with her Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, Second Adventism, David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, Reverend Jim Jones, and many more.)
So then, how do we interpret the Bible? With or without authority? If we do it on our own, then it doesn't matter who believes what, and we will all just do our own thing! Is that the way God works?
Rod P.
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66
Does the Bible interpret itself, or a fiddle you can play any tune with?
by Rod P intesting this thread.
well, after three times, it finally worked.
why are there so many religions all professing belief in the bible, yet all of them interpret the bible differently?
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Rod P
Hey guys,
Sorry, I kinda ducked on that one, in case this question generated a "firestorm". Didn't think I was supposed to ask such a loaded question. (I think I know how the Pharisaes must have felt when they asked questions on the Law.)
As I peeked out to have a look, I saw that maybe it's safe to come out.
Little Toe, I really liked your song. Just wish I could hear the tune; it would be even better. We here, in Canada, are a bilingual country, so maybe we should sing the first verse in English, and the second verse in French. (But if we're in Quebec, we should switch the order of presentation.)
Gee, Terry. Sounds like you have written off 5,000 years of human history, and the only thing left worth considering is the day and age we are living in. Sure hate to think that future generations are going to think about us in the same way. Maybe there's something to that, because by 10,000 A.D. the human race ought to be in outer space exploring other planets and galaxies, and they will say "Planet Earth? Wasn't that some Galactic Legend from centuries ago that claims our predecessors came from that distant planet in that far corner of of some Galaxy the inhabitants called the Milky Way? Well, of course, that's all just speculation now, because all the records got wiped out when an asteroid struck the planet and the whole food supply got wiped out, and they all died out. Pity! Wonder if there's anything to that story!........." Anyway, Terry, why don't we just end it all now, and put ourselves out of our misery? The futility of life as per your platform makes it all so pointless. "Life's a bitch, and then you die!" "Love is an illusion." "Drugs are for people who can't handle reality." So why even care about human decency, love, right and wrong, and the beauty of nature. Ethics is just a waste of time, being hypnotized by another "Urban Legend" or two...It should be law of the jungle; might is right; lie, plunder and steal against our fellow man; if it feels good, do it- and all that narcissistic, self-absorbed "Truth". Isn't there something kind of sickening and disgusting about this alternative???
John Doe, interesting that the Bible was invented with "ambiguity" as part of it's design. God must be laughing at the lot of us. He made this giant cryptogram, and then sat back to watch us mere mortals try to solve it.
Rocketman, that's an interesting theory. If what you say is true, then why didn't God just make a book about all the Love themes, and leave all that other obfuscation out of it? Especially since at stake is our very Salvation. Why did God make it so complicated. As for the Scholars, of course they are going to agree on Love, because it's in our natures as homo saps, and it's an issue like Motherhood and Apple Pie. Who would be against that, or want to argue with it?
Narkissos, I'm scratching my head on that one. Please explain how the Tower of Babel is (anti)climactic to the Torah's introduction. Are you suggesting that the story of the confusion of tongues was perhaps anit-climactic to the Torah, which was already confusing enough? Please elaborate.
Interesting discussion.
Rod P.
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66
Does the Bible interpret itself, or a fiddle you can play any tune with?
by Rod P intesting this thread.
well, after three times, it finally worked.
why are there so many religions all professing belief in the bible, yet all of them interpret the bible differently?
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Rod P
Testing this thread
Well, after three times, it finally worked. OK, here goes:
Why are there so many religions all professing belief in the Bible, yet all of them interpret the Bible differently? They can't all be right, because they contradict one another. Yet how do you know for sure who's interpretation is right, and whose interpretation is wrong? And why are there so many different versions of the Bible? Doesn't this make the problem worse?
Why can't biblical scholars, who have spent their whole lives researching and studying the Bible, agree amongst themselves what the scriptures mean? One says a certain passage is to be understood literally, while others argue it is symbollic or metaphorical or parable. Some point to prophecies that they say were all fulfilled in Jesus' day, while other teach they were meant for our day, in the 21st Century.
It sure looks to me like the Bible is anything but clear, and you and I don't stand a chance trying to figure the Bible out all on our own. One guy's opinion is as good as another's.
Yet our very eternal salavation is supposed to depend on our making the right choice.
I guess we could say that the Bible is like an old Fiddle, upon which you can play any old tune.
What do you think?
Rod P.
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53
Examples of JW evasiveness/dishonesty
by BONEZZ inbeing born and bred into the borg i always felt it was the "truth" but i wasn't the one who measured up i was not good enough to be a dub.
but i also had nagging questions that went unanswered by the most learned elders...or at least not answered to my satisfaction.
their "answers" were in fact not really answers but side-steps or attempts to mis-direct my question into an area they could answer.. an example...it always bothered me that we could not examine the contents of what opposers put out.
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Rod P
Right on, Kilroy 2! You got it, exactly. The truth is, the WBTS has it all wrong when it comes to their version of the Soul Doctrine. They point to thousands of verses that show the soul to be nothing more than a human being that gets hungry, hurt captured, dies, etc. None of these have anything to do with explaining what is a Soul or Spirit. There are scriptures, however, that provide strong evidence that we live on after we die- There is continuity of existence, and therefore, life after death. This is not the thread to debate this subject at length, but we do have a spirit that is inside our bodies, and when we die, our spirit leaves the body and goes somewhere else. It does not cease to exist. We are mortal, which simply means we are subject to death. That does not mean we go out of existence.
If when we die, we go out of existence, then why should we care if we make it into the New World? You're not going to know anyway, since you no longer exist when you die. However, your clone will wake up in the New World, and I guess God will just have to tell it/him/her that they are what some other guy that lived some time in the past. What kind of convoluted logic is that?
Rod P.
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51
Did we become JW because we wanted someone else to do our thinking for us?
by Rod P inask yourself the question "do i have the kind of personality that is attracted to a strong person or entity that speaks with authority, and is very assertive?".
most of us just want to follow the leader.
it makes us feel protected and secure.
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Rod P
That was very good, Steve 2. LOL!!!
Rod P.
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53
Examples of JW evasiveness/dishonesty
by BONEZZ inbeing born and bred into the borg i always felt it was the "truth" but i wasn't the one who measured up i was not good enough to be a dub.
but i also had nagging questions that went unanswered by the most learned elders...or at least not answered to my satisfaction.
their "answers" were in fact not really answers but side-steps or attempts to mis-direct my question into an area they could answer.. an example...it always bothered me that we could not examine the contents of what opposers put out.
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Rod P
Ellie,
You have asked one of those imponderable questions about God that theologians of all religions have been debating for centuries, and not just JW's.
We are talking about the "Foreknowledge" of God. If God is all powerful, and knows the beginning from the finale, does this mean that God caused it all to happen? Or does it mean that God would let everything happen, but because He is God, He would simply be able to predict from His Perfect Foreknowledge that such and such "Will Happen".
To use a crude analogy, if you saw your small child playing with matches, you would pretty well have the foreknowledge that your child would burn himself/herself if he/she lit them and put their fingers in the flame. This does not mean you forced your child to play with matches, just that, knowing your child, if there were matches there, he/she would be naturally curious enough to play with them, and from there you could see the consequences, while your child could not.
God knows all of us and the entire Universe infinitely more, since He created it all. Therefore he would know and see much deeper and farther than any of us mere mortals. But this does not prove that God caused us to behave a certain way; just that He would know that we would act a certain way, which would produce the natural consequences, which He would also know.
On the other hand, if God created us with the Nature that we have, and we do bad things or make bad or dangerous choices, does that not make God responsible for everything that happens in the Universe? If we weren't the way we were, then we wouldn't choose the way we do, and so the consequences would be different.
Rod P.
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51
Did we become JW because we wanted someone else to do our thinking for us?
by Rod P inask yourself the question "do i have the kind of personality that is attracted to a strong person or entity that speaks with authority, and is very assertive?".
most of us just want to follow the leader.
it makes us feel protected and secure.
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Rod P
Truth or Lie,
With respect, why don't you start your own thread on this forum and pontificate to your heart's content. I fail to see how your remarks on this thread have anything to do with the question I have asked, and I don't think the exchange of barbs back and forth is contributing a whole lot to the question either.
Rod P.